Link to Audio Podcast: https://www.bravevoices.fieldscenter.princeton.edu/native-indigenous-voices

Interview with Rachel Berg '04

Hosted by Gabby Chavarria ‘26

Gabby Chavarria '26 (00:05)

The first thing is going to be an introduction, so your name, class year, and concentration. And then also feel free to share your tribal affiliation, nation, clan, or tribal community. And if you want to share that in your Native language, then, you can do so.

Rachel Berg '04 (00:20)

So my name is Rachel Olivia Berg. When I was a student, I was Rachel Olivia Gutwein. And I'm class of 2004. I am Mnicoujou Lakota and Mexican and German. And I am a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe from Eagle Butte, South Dakota. While I was here, I studied Visual Arts and American studies. At the time, I wanted to, I kind of wanted to pursue Native studies, but it wasn't framed in that lens at that point. So it was kind of history of the American West was the direction I went.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (00:55)

So how did Princeton's environment compare to the environment that you were raised or grew up in? And what was your experience like as a first year at Princeton?

Rachel Berg '04 (01:03)

So I was raised in South Dakota, but my family, I'm interracial, my father is of German American [descent] and he was actually from New Brunswick. So New Jersey was a place that my grandparents lived and when I was young, I used to come to the area. So there was a familiarity already with the area, with Princeton, with all of that. In addition, education is extremely, extremely important in my family. And when I was young, we traveled, my mom was studying, she was pursuing her PhD while I was here at Princeton. So it was kind of one of those things that although I was very aware of the differences and am very aware of the differences of reservation life, my parents brought me to very many different scenarios and so I kind of was aware of what it was going to be different obviously than where I was from. In addition to that, I also did my high school years in Pennsylvania near Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and I was at a private school. My father taught at the school, so I was able to attend for a very great, great deal. I guess when I graduated, he kind of said, I got ⁓ a cut in pay now as my tuition as part of his deal. So, yeah, I mean, I think that although I knew some of my friends at Princeton who had different experiences, I was pretty accustomed and like ready to be in these different spaces and especially the academic space.

I really wanted to be in the discourse. was excited. That freshman year was one of the first times I felt like I was kind of where I was supposed to be. So in that way, I very much fit in. However, once I got here and as time passed, I learned that when you're really in it, because I would always lived with my family before, but when you're really in it, how far you can be from where you're from when you're in this kind of college in general.

But Princeton is particularly nuanced.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (03:08)

Yeah. So would you say you found a community at Princeton that was formative or important to you?

Rachel Berg '04 (03:13)

Absolutely. Princeton's where I learned it was the BIPOC community really. You know, that's where I learned how important it is for community building for kind of the others to get together and...to find our place, forge our place. You know, I really, I was with my roommates, strong women, diverse backgrounds. The student activities were really, really important. Like I was really active in Natives at Princeton and shoot, there were four of us that were really active, but there was a little more, I feel like maybe nine, including some grad students. But we, that was where, I mean, in a way I really feel like it was important because I found that's how learn to find a place and to demand your space. I didn't know we were doing that at the time. You know, we were just having fun and relating to each other, but I can pinpoint that now as forming here and still to this day being the community that I go back to because I don't necessarily fit into other boxes that you might think I should fit into or I'm not comfortable there, let's say. And I think that that forging at Princeton was really, really formative for that.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (04:29)

These are like really refreshing perspectives for me personally. I just wanted to say that before you continue.

Rachel Berg '04 (04:34)

It's good to hear. I'm happy to be in this space in particular too because it's important. It was always important.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (04:42)

So we're gonna move on to identity. Did being at Princeton change the way you perceive yourself as Native or Indigenous?

Rachel Berg '04 (04:50)

You know, I was reading these questions beforehand and I thought it was interesting because I was like, did it? But like identity, it's a layered question because identity, my identity was forged. And I think even to get to Princeton as a person, there was a confidence that I had. And also I was interested in diverse things when I came. I wasn't sure if I was going to be an artist or if I was going to pursue psychology or, you know, other there were were different avenues. That's particularly why I wanted a liberal arts education. But being here, being an artist, finding, becoming myself and realizing that I was an artist and these things, identity became central to what I was thinking about. It became central to what I was trying to forge. It became like central to what we were all doing here. And I think even with, because a lot of my friends in the groups that I hung out with were either artists or political science or we're going to be lawyers or you know, we were all talking and thinking about identity all the time.

And there was a sense of being other. And there was a sense of our urgency and place to really make space for ourselves. And in terms of being...Indigenous, that never really changed. That was always like solid at the heart. That's who I am. But then there was all these other complicated questions that came on top of it. And still to this day, get on top, you know, become on top. And now I'm a mother and now I have, you know, all of these things. So I think that the behaviors, the choices, the temptations, kind of like the way of being, the way you're going to live your life was really questioned here. And I think there were certain paths that maybe I went that were not necessarily in line with my upbringing or Indigenous ways of being, but I had to walk those paths. That was my path. So when I think about it, it's not so much that it affected my identity, it affected the way I made choices, which, you know, does affect your life and all of those things. But in terms of identity, I just really always felt proud to be Indigenous. I felt proud to be here. I knew that my family was proud. I knew that my tribe was proud that I was representing, but I didn't. There was just a lot of new things that I didn't know were really, that's the way people thought, if that makes sense. so yeah, that was, it definitely affected that. Like it was definitely formative. It set me on a path. It set me away that I don't know that I would have had I been somewhere else in those years, but yeah, that's about all I can say there.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (07:29)

That was great.

So this next question is a little bit about the broader context and how you balanced your sense of belonging to your Native and Indigenous identity and community in the broader context of Princeton.

Rachel Berg '04 (07:42)

It's interesting to think of it as balance because that's exactly what you're doing. I never put it in that context necessarily because I felt fractured at times. I think that's why art became my way was because that was the easiest way for me personally to dive into these questions. It was a seeking for balance because there's a fractured aspect that happens. I think that that's something you may or may not hear from other folks as you interview, or you may experience yourself, but that there's this sense of two worlds, there's a sense of shoot, there's a sense of more than two worlds. And kind of figuring out how to jump in between them and be who you are in all of them and speak the way you're going to speak and change the way you're going to speak. And that navigation, I think that's how I've always referred to it is navigating. But you're right, it is exactly kind of like teetering on things because when you go too far, you feel that and maybe you’re not quite who you are, being true to yourself. But I think when you're young and as a student in particular, questioning those things, that's kind of your job is to see like how far you can go, whatever direction. So I think when it comes to identity, I think art was the way that I did that. I mean, when balancing those things, that's where I was asking the questions. That's where I confronted the challenges like face on. It was difficult because my professors, some of them just didn't understand. They didn't see it that, you know, coming from like a traditional art background or a way that it's supposed to be. They just didn't. And I had lot of, whatever confidence I came here with, there was definitely some suppression and I felt, you know, I had to overcome some things when it came. But that's where I was seeking the balance and ultimately I think that's where I was finding it. But it's also where I was finding the challenge.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (09:31)

I was actually gonna ask a question a little bit more catered to you. I wanted to know how Princeton like kind of influenced or informed in any way your interdisciplinary process.

Rachel Berg '04 (09:42)

Oh yeah, mean, I Princeton was so formative to my career, to my life as an artist. I mean, I think that's like the point of higher ed, you know? So it's really, really important to me and it always has been. And actually, when I graduated, I spent about 15 years. Actually, my thesis advisor had a friend connected me to a job and I stuck with it for 15 years, which is kind of rare, I think. And I worked as an art consultant and it was a small firm. I was basically by five years and running a small business, working with high-end developers, architects, doing all of this very, very luxury design, knowing contemporary art and working with galleries and doing all this thing. It's kind of like a sexy job on paper. It's very much tedious and the reality of jobs, as we all know, can be different. But I found about 15 years in that I was that's it. I was like, this is it? What happened to all the questions I had? What happened to the things I was trying to forge when I was young? And that was solidified here. What happened to that part of me? And I'm out here working for all these other artists and happily, you know, like there was very much like I was fulfilled. I was working with women artists. I was making sure that I was including people of color and LGBTQ. I was making sure that I was making other people's art be in the spaces. And then I was like, why am I not putting my art in those spaces? And a lot of it, you know, when I really question it, because I've been questioning it for the past couple of years, and I ended up just quitting my job doing the whole like, I'm just going to quit and do this this way now, which I love that you guys are calling this project Brave Voices, because I feel that at this point in my life, I've had to exhibit a lot of bravery or like try to be courageous because there were just systems that I set up for myself that I have to break down. And that's why I say Princeton's so formative because I really think that there's a connection for me to this place, to that time.

Those questions being unanswered still that really motivate me in this stage of my life. And it's okay if I'm this, you know, it's okay if I didn't do it right away. And I'm just now coming to terms with that because I still learned what I learned and I carry it with me. And so Princeton, the experience here, who I was here, there's a kind of a little bit of a reclamation happening in my own personal work and my life. And even participating in this project is an effort to fill those gaps. It's an effort to move in the direction that I've always known that I wanted to move. So that is why the interdisciplinary, I realize that all of those parts of me, all of these, this variety that, know, the places even from the time I was a child that I have, we used to say mixed, it's interracial.

And intercultural, you know, I have all of these things that make me me and I'm realizing that that is the way I have to forge forward. Like I have to be, I have to utilize all the things that are gifts. You know, I have to, I'm compelled to, I should say, I don't have to, but I'm compelled to, utilize those things. So I think that working in that way allows me to do that and it allows me to navigate the questions I have really genuinely. And I think one of the main themes of what I would do is try to find those universal threads that link all of these cultural contexts and these thoughts and these behaviors and try to find that commonality for myself and hopefully through my art it will express commonality to others. The environment's a big thing that I work with and I love that you use the word balance because I think about cycles, natural cycles. I'm trying to voice my Indigenous viewpoint in ways that I know will be understood outside of just the Indigenous context and I really became comfortable with that discomfort here. And so I'm returning to those lessons. I'm also teaching now, I'm teaching college and it's refreshing to confront it just on that level and be the other person and to take those lessons with me and have that viewpoint. It's really, it's so intertwined and as students, I mean, you can really...carry these things with you. It is a part of you. Still my best friends, still the people that I turned to, I found them here.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (14:20)

We're gonna switch gears a little bit and talk about the administration that you experienced while you were on campus. If there was one thing that Princeton leadership could make to improve experiences for Native and Indigenous students here, what would that be?

Rachel Berg '04 (14:32)

Okay, so I have been not so in touch with how life is for current Native students on campus. One of my cousins was at Columbia a few years back and I was actually really like, and I know that similar things are happening here, there was just more of a vibrance. Like we were really invisible when I was here. We made space for ourselves, but it wasn't something that I felt the university had a great, you we were asking for the funds, we were putting the things together.

And I hope that that has changed because I think it has. I've looked on the website I know that now there's like Native Studies and there's you know things that show me that maybe that maybe it's different but I think Princeton has always done a great job of allowing, like that very thing, of allowing the space for the students to advocate for themselves has always been great and if that continues to be great this question should be for the students now like what do they need because I know what we needed and I think if we asked for it, we would have gotten it, you know, but I think I don't, I can't necessarily speak to that experience. I do have a 17 year old son. I just am very conscious of how different the world is these days. So I find I was very supported here. And if that element has still maintained and is still there, then everybody's doing the right thing. I know it's not a direct answer to the question, but I don't really know what is going on right now for those folks. I want to. You know, I'd love to be a part of it.

Something just came to my head. There was something when I was young that really does affect me still and it wasn't necessarily something that Princeton did but there was this impression and I know with all of what is going on in the world right now and this idea of DEI and all of that.

There was an impression when I was a student that I didn't feel inside of Princeton, but I felt as soon as I walked out into the world that, oh, you only went there because you're Native. And the damage that that does to people is real. Because it questions. And I was like, no, I knew, no, that's not why.

And what I would say is as an institution, if they could let students know that it is of value, I have always had the sense when I was here and I still have the sense that Princeton is a place for critical thought, for examining, for really, really questioning and exploring.

the answers to those questions, the potential answers to those questions. And I think if there was a way that the institution could frame to students of color, students of marginalized communities that, no, you're valued because of this. And yes, it's not just because of these things, it's because of your voice. It's because of your perspective. It's because of where you're from. And that's a value because the thought process, the ideas that you can bring to the table are actually valued to the discourse and take it out of this like, oh, we're checking a racial box. Like whatever work can be done to change that language, that would be, I think, what would be helpful not just to Princeton, but as Princeton is a leader in higher ed, that would be one of the things. So really change that. Don't use these buzzwords like DEI. Find something else that ties it to the viewpoint and the perspective. So I guess I did have an answer, a deeper answer to that question.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (18:13)

Yeah, sometimes it takes a while. These last couple questions are more about campus life while you were here. So what was the campus climate like for you during your time here?

Rachel Berg '04 (18:15)

Okay, I came in 2000, spring of 2000, 2004. I will say it's kind of back, style-wise. Anyway, at least that, the music, the style. But what was campus like? I mean, I think in my experience, campus...was first of all, there was the eating clubs and the whole, that whole culture, which I know is alive and well and good because that is a mainstay and an aspect of Princeton. I felt that, you know, all of the activities that were available, you know, the Hoagie Haven, the study, the ice cream socials, like all of that stuff was just so great. And it's like we always had something to do. Like that was what I think I recently not too recently, but like within the last year, I found a journal that I was writing in and I'm historically a bad journaler. So it's like, you know, like a couple entries and then like six months later, like one more. But in those couple entries, it was all the choices. Like there was just so many things to do. It was just such a vibrant campus. was like, you know, whatever you want. If you wanted to see dance, if you wanted to see comedy, if you want to see that. And that aspect of campus life was just fantastic. And then, cause you didn't have to participate in the party culture, but you could, you know, it was there. I felt that there was definitely like a segregation of, of that aspect, like the eating clubs and then everybody else. You know, I lived in Spelman. It was, I was independent like for sure, but I've really found solace in all the activities and all this stuff. I didn't ever feel like we were isolated. We talk about it, well, you know, we're not doing all that stuff. But I still got like a very full campus experience. Forever grateful for that, for real.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (20:13)

Do you believe that your Native or Indigenous identity and culture were represented at Princeton? If so, in what ways?

Rachel Berg '04 (20:23)

No. No. They weren't. We were representing them. So in that way, yes. But I think over-archingly, no. But that's okay. You know, it was, we were representing.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (20:37)

Well, I think we've talked about this a little bit, considering your experience with representation and then representation now, do you see any major differences between them?

Rachel Berg '04 (20:46)

I can't exactly speak to the representation now, but my guess is that there is a difference because first of all, the time, I mean, even just even just like levels of activism, right? Like we were back in the days of Columbus Day, you know, and we were trying like that was something like we were trying to do and just bring awareness to the fact that this shouldn't this shouldn't be talked about this way, or at least it should be talked about so that we can really work through this as a country as what we're what question just what are we, what are we voicing? But that was kind of like in terms of like just activisms or things that might change or that we could affect change on. That was kind of like all we had at that time but I know for a fact that there's climate change, there's natural resources, other groups, many groups of people are coming together on certain causes that are Indigenous causes and so I know for a fact that that is happening across across the United States. It must be happening here and so I think there probably is more going on. There's more awareness and also I think there's more Indigenous voice in our nation now than there was. There wasn't outlets, there wasn't shows like Reservation Dogs, there wasn't, there weren't these places and spaces where we were represented.

I was laughing with my son and telling him recently how like, because he was always like, mom you like Keanu Reeves so much. No ‘cause I do, I love Keanu Reeves. But like when I think about it, it's because he looks like me. He was somehow somehow like that's all we had was like, you know, we didn't have these cultural figures at all. So I'm kind of like when I was thinking about it, I was like, I like him because he looks like he could be my cousin, you know, like and like the stories he's telling are kind of like heart stories like they're, you know, and it was it was funny because he would, I went into this whole thing and he was like, uh-huh. Yeah. I was like, no, I'm serious though. But yeah.

I think that so there has to be. I mean, I can't speak to what's going on now necessarily, but there just has to be because, because we have more of a voice now, we're more confident. It's just a part of the fabric of change for the Indigenous community in general. And I think there's a lot more students going to college from my tribe, from, from everywhere. There's just a lot more awareness. And, you know, it took some time. When I think about it, I was the first generation that didn't attend boarding school. You know, like my mom, she didn't all the time, but she did for for two or three years she was at boarding school and my aunties and uncles and all of that and to think that I'm the first generation and I attended Princeton. So it's it's really, there's a lot of change and so I think that probably there's more going on. I hope that's true. You guys can fill me in after the interview.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (23:34)

So our final question, what is your advice for current students and what is your hope for future Native and Indigenous students on Princeton's campus?

Rachel Berg '04 (23:42)

Keep going, just always, you know, keep going. Life is hard. Challenges are expected. And in fact, I just don't think that we can advance without them because...there's crucial growing pains that you have to go through, so keep going. What would I hope for students at Princeton, Indigenous students at Princeton? I hope that they feel proud of who they are, and I hope that they can hold on to that.

I hope that they have the fortitude to stand strong and live the way that they want to live and not necessarily be seduced by some of the temptations of what this...I talk a lot about the wonderful gifts that Princeton gave me, but there's also that other side of reality where capital, just capitalism, things that really inhibit our way of being and the way that we want to build community and the way that we want to exist within our community and share with our elders and people who are younger and just all of the things. I mean, the Mitikuyi Eoyasen in my language is all my relations and it's something that is, embodies, all of existence, you know, not just humans, but everything around you, the Earth, everything that we are a part of and being in community and trying to be in balance with that. And it's really difficult in the world we live in, you know, and when you're in a space like Princeton, you have more power. And I hesitate to say that because the reality I've been out, you know, I know. And, you know, you have power because you're here. And within this context, there's

Just the fact that you are given the space and the respect to explore your own ideas is power. So use that. know, there's nothing that can never take this away from you. Anybody can never take it away from you. It is your work. Yeah, I hope that everyone who passes through these halls has the fortitude to remember themselves when they're alone because you're not with your community here.

And you can build your own community and you can stay strong. So I wish that for them.