Link to Audio Podcast: https://www.bravevoices.fieldscenter.princeton.edu/native-indigenous-voices

Interview with Raafa Elsheikh '25 & Rahma Elsheikh '25

Hosted by Myra Ridhuan ‘27

Myra Ridhuan '27 (00:05)

Well first, thank you for just taking time out of your day and agreeing to do the interview. So we're first going to start off with introductions. So please introduce your name, class year, and concentrations. And feel free to also share your tribal affiliation, nation, clan, or the tribal community you come from. And if you wish to do this in your own Native or Indigenous language, please do so.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (00:25)

Hi, I'm Rahma Elsheikh. I'm a senior and I studied mathematics. We come from two tribal origins, so Bothani and Dungalawi, and we're Indigenous to Nubia, which is like in the northern parts of Sudan, where our family is from.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (00:39)

And I'm Raafa Elsheikh. I'm a senior and I'm class of 2025 and I'm majoring in ORFE.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (00:45)

Perfect. So there's different sections to the interview. The first section being community / environment, with the first question being, what is your initial impression of Princeton University? How does Princeton's environment compare to the environment you were raised or grew up in?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (00:59)

Yeah, I guess my initial views of the Princeton environment, think like freshman year they did a really good job of making it seem like, everybody was welcome. Like, this is like a really safe space. But I think as time evolved, I realized there are a lot of like epoches that were missing, like a lot of communities that were very absent and a lot of like smaller affinity groups. And I think that's why we saw like a lot of fragmentation within these groups to like create those smaller communities. But it differs, I guess, from the community I [was] raised in, because I feel like here people are a lot more individualistic. But I think back home and also I go back to Sudan and our Indigenous land, it's very community based. You can go to your neighbor and ask for eggs if you don't have eggs in your fridge. But here I feel like I need to go buy eggs myself or I can't just knock on my neighbor's door because I might not even know them, which would be an issue back home.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (01:46)

Yeah, I think that was well said. My initial view of Princeton was also kind of the same, like there's so much going on. There are like so many brilliant people, so many different communities to engage with. But then, yeah, as I got more into Princeton, I realized the actual fragmentation in a lot of communities and the absence of communities. And also, like Raafa said, the constant need, it seems, to prove yourselves or to stand out in spaces. And I think that definitely differs from back home where there's there’s no need to prove yourself, it's just all about existing with each other, whereas here it's more like, what can you do for me, what can I do for you, I think.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (02:25)

you for sharing that. Going off of that question, what was your experience like your first year at Princeton and how did you adjust to the transition?

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (02:33)

My experience my first year, think honestly, so I did DDA my freshman year as the orientation group and I think that really shaped my first year. My adjusting to Princeton in a very like good way because I had like mentors that actually cared about me and I had like a community kind of already built. But I think generally my transition is probably just like this like constant search for space or for people I can like be friends with and I think I totally fell into like only hanging out with people who are like me or had shared identities or shared experiences with me and that definitely helped my adjusting because there were just things that I didn't have to explain to them that we were both experiencing at the same time. Yeah, I think just being around people who had shared identities and shared experiences helped me adjust. I think being in community has always been, in all four of my years, an important part to adjusting to Princeton.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (03:27)

Yeah, I would just agree with that. I think when I first came to Princeton, it was really important for me to seek out the same communities I come from, especially because we grew up in a very homogenous area that was very antithetical of our own identity. So it was really important for me to find people who related to my experience. And I think that made the transition a lot easier because I was able to go to them and not have to explain things I do or how I exist because I kind of already knew.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (03:52)

And what is your relationship like with your family and your tribal or Indigenous communities since leaving home and has being at Princeton changed that?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (03:59)

Yeah, I think we keep a pretty good relationship with our family directly at home, like within the United States. But I think outside of the US, like back in our Indigenous land, think at least for me, I'm slowly losing my connection to that area. But connection in terms of my ability to speak to people there, because I'm too focused on existing here that I'm losing the culture and the language that people back there use. But I think being at Princeton, it's caused me to fall into this really interesting thing where I realize how much that means to me since I'm so far removed from it. I feel like if I was existing in that community, I wouldn't realize how valuable it is to me. It's something I miss a lot. I think overall, being at Princeton, the academic rigor, the need to involve yourself within the communities here, caused me to be, or at least feel a lot more distant to my community back home, especially since...Like there's not an Indigenous, like, Nubian community at Princeton that I can, like, go and talk to. It's really just like my sister.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (04:56)

I think our parents raised us in a very beautiful way that even if they weren't teaching us something directly about, like they weren't saying, this is part of the Indigenous culture, they would still teach us these things without us knowing until now coming to realize, that's actually part of my Indigeneity. And I think because of that, because it wasn't directly taught, there are still some things I'm able to practice without realizing it that helped me preserve some of that culture and that history and that identity. And I agree with Raafa. It takes way more intention and effort being here and still like communicating and like building a relationship with our family, especially those in Sudan. But I think it's like so worth it and I think it like reveals to us like the importance like that culture and identity has in our lives because we're like still continuing to put in that effort and that intention. I think on campus there like are a few students that are also Nubian and being in community with them and just like exchanging even words or languages that we all relate to and that we can all connect over helps preserve some of that identity or at the very least reveals to us that there's still possibility for community even without being on the physical land and that's comforting at the very least.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (06:09)

Yeah, that was really well said. The next question is, you feel you have found a community and / or a home away from home at Princeton- I know you briefly touched on it, but if there's more you want to elaborate, feel free to. And if so, when was the first time you felt this way?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (06:24)

Yeah, I feel like the first time I kind of learned that like being Nubian also meant being Indigenous is when I interacted with this professor, Dr. Mounia Mnouer, which is, she's Indigenous to Morocco and she taught this Near Eastern Studies class that talked about North African Indigeneity and I feel like that class was the first time I realized, oh it was like, it's okay to like be Indigenous in this space and like, in fact, it's okay to also like celebrate your Indigeneity and then I think I found community when I talked to other Sudanese people and they're like, I'm Nubian. I'm like, no way, I'm Nubian too, that's crazy. And then we talk about our family origins and then where we come from in Sudan that is a Nubian region. And we're like, we're probably related, that's so crazy. And I think those are the small moments where I feel like there is a community within Princeton that, even though Princeton didn't create it itself, still exists for people who are Nubian or come from Sudan, like Indigenous regions in Sudan. Yeah.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (07:20)

I agree, I would definitely say that. Dr. Mounia was a big part of realizing my Indigenous identity because growing up, I would always hear about Indigeneity but never see people who look like me who are like, I'm Indigenous, until coming here and meeting her. And so, definitely took quite a while for me to come to terms with that but I think it was a very beautiful experience and I always tell her that she made me realize I was Indigenous, which is a weird thing to say when I'm an a full grown adult. But yeah, I would agree with Raafa. I don't think I truly felt community until maybe this year because we have like so much more Sudanese students on campus as like freshmen and sophomores and like yeah we like sometimes like sit and like trace our like lineage by our middle names and like we're like like we're definitely related I think it's just like like Raafa said we're able to create community without realizing it even though Princeton maybe doesn't afford us like the space or the intention.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (08:15)

The professor you mentioned, I believe, someone else also mentioned in their previous interview and how taking their class...

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (08:21)

She's awesome.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (08:22)

Yeah, I feel like she's been one of the most like, like the biggest advocates for Indigeneity that's like outside of the United States. Yeah, she's awesome. Have you spoken to her yet?

Myra Ridhuan '27 (08:31)

It was Lina, I'm pretty sure, that talked about that professor.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (08:33)

Yeah, she's so great.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (08:35)

She's awesome.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (08:36)

That's great. And then going off of that, kind of on the opposite end. Are there any moments when being Indigenous made you feel marginalized from the greater Princeton community? If so, could you describe this moment?

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (08:48)

I think it's hard to answer that question because I don't think being Indigenous is even truly something that I would say the greater Princeton community recognizes. It's a small fraction of Princeton that realizes that there are Indigenous people on campus. So I don't even know if there's really an answer to that question. But I would say maybe within the Indigenous community itself, people who do recognize that, I have felt alienated in some ways just because I I would show up in spaces that claim to be like Indigenous but not see anyone that looks like me or like not really be welcomed I think in the same way that other Indigenous students are being welcomed so maybe that kind of answers the question but I again I don't I don't think there's even like a basis like there's not really like a Princeton doesn't really recognize Indigenous students enough to be able to really answer that.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (09:38)

Yeah, I agree. I think it's also pretty hard to be like, I'm marginalized because I'm Indigenous when there's so many other identities that I feel like I'm marginalized for. But I think Rahma said it really well that within the Indigenous community, feel like space isn't necessarily made for people who have Indigenous roots that are outside of the United States, which makes sense because you're in the land where Indigenous people from the US existed. But I think there needs to be some understanding that. there's Indigeneity that exists beyond the United States and to like welcome that into those same spaces.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (10:09)

Thank you for sharing that. That was like a different perspective. I don't think anyone's mentioned how like it's kind of hard to answer the question because if you don't even recognize Indigenous identities, how can you marginalize or welcome them if it's not even recognized in the first place? I'll move on to the next section which is being at Princeton changed the way you perceive yourself as Indigenous?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (10:30)

I think honestly going back to that professor, feel like I knew I was Nubian before, but I don't think I knew that being Nubian also meant I'm Indigenous to the Sudanese region or the region in Sudan that's Nubian. So I think not Princeton necessarily, but the people at Princeton that really supported my Indigenous identity and my understanding that part of my identity is Indigenous was very monumental to my formation of self or identity because now I can say like, oh yeah, being Nubian does mean I'm also Indigenous. Not like, oh yeah, I'm just Nubian.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (11:03)

Yeah, I would definitely agree. I think Dr. Mounia really helped with coming to terms with my Indigenous identity. Other than that, nothing really else. I think she's just like, yeah, she's really awesome. She really is very proud about her Indigenous identity and think fosters pride in other people, which is really nice.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (11:22)

That's really sweet. The next section is about campus life. Do you believe that your Indigenous, you kind of touched on this already, but do you believe that your Indigenous identity and culture are represented at Princeton and if so, in what ways?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (11:37)

For a short answer, no. I think in the communities, we already talked about this, but in the Indigenous communities, I don't think it's represented really at all. But I think when we talk to other Sudanese people, it's very obviously represented and very obviously held as an identity. But yeah, you can't really find it outside of the people who understand that it should be considered as an Indigenous identity and there should be community for it.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (12:01)

Yeah, I agree.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (12:02)

Yeah.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (12:04)

And then the next section, that was also the only question for campus life, the next section is administration. If there was one change that the Princeton leadership could make to improve experiences for Indigenous students on campus, what would that be?

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (12:17)

Mmm.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (12:18)

I feel like doing more than just acknowledging the land that we sit on. 'Cause again, Indigeneity goes beyond what exists in the US. And I think administratively, it would be really great to see a person that's hired that specifically focuses on Indigenous life and integrating Indigenous culture and fostering more communities or more spaces for people who have Indigeneity from the US and from outside of the US and giving them... more than just like a room space.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (12:46)

Yeah, I agree. I think it would be helpful to have somebody...who helps students with like creating spaces in community communities because sometimes it can get super hard with like classes and assignments to like really create those spaces but I think ultimately students will always show up to be in community. So I think yeah like Raafa said having someone to kind of help like guide us in that sense and having someone who acknowledges like global Indigeneity rather than just Indigeneity in the US but also recognizes like the varying needs for each community.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (13:18)

We have some extra questions. I'm going to delve into one. What is your experience getting involved with campus life at Princeton and what activities or student groups are you involved in and what drew you to those groups or activities?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (13:30)

Yeah, I'm a part of the Black Student Union, Ellipses Slam Poetry, Muslim Student Association, and then I'm also member of an eating club. And I think what drew me to those spaces are a lot of them are identity-based, some of them are out of interest like slam poetry. And then joining an eating club is that I think why I did was not just because of lot of people, that a lot of people that were in there, I really enjoy, but also because I think it's really important to take up space, especially as somebody who has a lot of marginalized identities. And I think overall I'm drawn to all of these campus life communities because of what we said, like freshman year, trying to find people who I relate to or people who come from the same communities as I do and then hoping to foster stronger communities within those identities across campus.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (14:16)

Yeah, also kind of involved in some of the same organizations like Black Student Union, African Students Association, the Rose Castle Society, also in an eating club, Muslim Students Association, a lot of like identity-based groups like Raafa said for the reason of finding community and like finding people who have like same kind of experiences or can like just understand things without having extra explanation. Yeah, I think community's always drawn me to join groups and honestly dictates a lot of the way that I move around the world in general.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (14:48)

That was great. Thank you for sharing that and then what are three words you would use to describe your Princeton experience?

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (14:55)

I would maybe say rigorous, invaluable, and love is like a term I would use. I have a lot of love for people here.

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (14:55)

Yeah. I would steal the love one honestly and then I would say insightful and probably evolution.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (15:17)

I like that one, evolution. I actually want to go into this other question of how did you feel when you got accepted into Princeton and how does this feeling compare to how you feel now?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (15:29)

Obviously really, really excited to get into Princeton. How I feel now, at least as a, I think like maybe if you asked me this question when I wasn't a senior, I'd be different, but I think as a senior now, I feel like I'm not ready to leave Princeton, but…okay, I think it's like twofold. I think it's like because of the classes and I think they obviously have like a really good academic structure here, but then I think more importantly, I feel like there's not enough that maybe I've seen being done on campus or that I've done myself necessarily when it comes to like creating stronger communities and a lot of like identity-based organizations are lot of the identities that I'm involved with and that I would like really like to stay to continue the work that's being done and see like, see it all through.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (16:09)

Yeah, I would also say like obviously super excited when I got the acceptance and I think to some degree excited now being a senior to like use what I learned here in the real world. Bittersweet because I'll be leaving a lot of people that I love and a lot of communities that I love but like Raafa said also kind of like still wishing I had more time here like to take more classes to like create more spaces. There's like so much to do here but can never really do it all which is the reality of life.

Myra Ridhuan '27 (16:37)

And then that brings us to our final question, is, what is your hope for future Indigenous students on Princeton's campus?

Raafa Elsheikh '25 (16:45)

I feel like my hope is for Indigenous students on campus to obviously feel like they're welcome and that Indigenous identity isn't something that they should feel a need to conceal. And then overall I just hope that there's more of an understanding of global Indigeneity rather than just the sole focus of the Indigenous culture that is around us physically.

Rahma Elsheikh '25 (17:04)

Yeah, I agree. I hope more activity in general with the Native community. I hope people are getting together more often. I hope people are exchanging and sharing and learning from each other more often. I hope that hopefully helps Princeton recognize Indigenous people more often. But yeah, I just hope for there to be more movement in the community.