Link to Audio Podcast: https://www.bravevoices.fieldscenter.princeton.edu/native-indigenous-voices

Interview with Ellis Hanby '27

Hosted by Gabby Chavarria ‘26

Gabby Chavarria '26 (00:05)

Thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview. So we're gonna start with introductions. Feel free to introduce yourself with your name, class year, and concentration. You can also share your tribal affiliation, nation, or clan, or the tribal community you come from. And if you wanna share this in your Native or Indigenous language, then you can do so.

Ellis Hanby '27 (00:23)

My name is Ellis Hanby. I'm a part of the great class of 2027. I just recently declared English as my major, so I'm very excited. And I am a member of the Cherokee Nation.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (00:33)

Alright, so our first question is about community and environment. What was your initial impression of Princeton University and how does Princeton's environment compare to the environment you were raised or grew up in?

Ellis Hanby '27 (00:44)

So initially when I thought of Princeton, it was just kind of like this dreamscape. I grew up in the northwest corner of Arkansas, just outside of the Cherokee Nation. My grandfather moved when he was in his 20s or 30s maybe, and my family relocated to the northwest corner. And so Princeton always felt very far away. No one in my family had gotten to an Ivy. Basically all of my family members, if they went to college, went to the University of Arkansas, so go Hogs.

And so I don't know, it was just very much like, if I could ever get there, like that would be crazy. Like it just didn't even seem realistic. And I remember when I toured campus for like preview and everything, post acceptance, I was like, wow, like this, I can't imagine actually living here. It felt like out of a movie or something. And so yeah, it was very, it's very different from the environment I was raised in and like now coming and getting to experience it. The people are very different. The vibes in general are very different, not just the weather, but also like kind of the pressure and the way people talk to each other, which is like not even necessarily in a negative way, it's just different than how I was used to. But yeah, no, it's very different, I would say.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (01:42)

What was your experience like your first year here at Princeton and how did you adjust to the transition?

Ellis Hanby '27 (01:46)

I will not lie, my first year was not super fun, especially the first semester. I definitely felt like I was out of my water and just the adjustment to Princeton was very slow going. I got here and I like, I think it'll be fine, but I think also I'm the oldest of my siblings. So when I like left home, it just felt very much like I was kind of being ripped away and they were all still together. So it was like, that was weird.

And then I kind of touched on this earlier, but just the way people talk to each other is different. I'm very much used to Southern excess flattery, formalities or whatever, and everyone here is very direct. And so one of my roommates, I was in the quad my freshman year, is from New Jersey. And so I thought she just hated me because of the way she talked. But no, she's just direct. And I think that that also was evident in classes too.

Like the way people talk to each other in precept was really overwhelming and I wasn't used to like, someone should be like, oh I disagree with that idea. Which you know maybe I'm just like not a tough cookie or whatever but my first semester was rough. So I feel like the transition was slow but then, you know, second semester was better. I felt more grounded in my friendships and I think that it was, it became like a different home away from home as cliche as that sounds but it was rough in the beginning.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (02:54)

So what was your relationship like with your family and your tribal or Indigenous community since leaving home, and has being at Princeton changed that?

Ellis Hanby '27 (03:01)

I think in high school I was very connected to my Indigenous community. I actually started the Indigenous Coalition at my school where all of the Native and Indigenous students kind of like banded together. We went through like college applications and like different resources we could use. And so I was really excited to keep, you know, because a lot of my family still lives on the reservation. So was like cool to like, you know, we were very close. And then, coming to Princeton, not only was I just physically very far, but the Native community is very small on campus, which is to be expected. We're no longer in the south or near Cherokee Nation. But I think I wasn't prepared for how small it was going to be just because I had done the Indigenous Flying Program at Dartmouth. And it was a really big community. And I was like, my goodness, this is what college is going to be like. I'm going to be surrounded by Native and Indigenous kids all the time.

And that is definitely not really Princeton, but we still have a community and it is a like good community of students. I personally haven't felt very connected to it really at all my sophomore year. My freshman year, it was like iffy. I would go to all of the events, but it didn't necessarily feel like I was like getting involved. So maybe that's like a personal issue, but I don't know. I think that that maybe because it's so small, it's like slightly confining in that sense.

So I think to a certain extent, like being at Princeton has just kind of like, not distanced me from my heritage because every time I go home, I'm right back in it, but I've never necessarily felt like, oh I'm Native at Princeton.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (04:24)

That was a great way to put it. So when was the first time you felt like you've found a community here?

Ellis Hanby '27 (04:29)

I’m on the cheer team, so when we came back early for Wintersession and it was just like me and all of my cheer friends, that was kind of the first time I felt like I had a like real community on campus because you know I went to practice with these people all the time, saw them all the time, but it kind of just felt like they're the upperclassmen, I'm a freshman, but when we finally came together at Wintersession I really did feel connected to all of those people and that felt like my kind of first community at Princeton was like the cheer team. And they were great. And I actually met a friend on there who's also, she's Choctaw, but like that was very cool too. It was just like, even though, you know, that's like a really a microcosm of the Princeton community. And yet there was still someone I felt like very in like friendship and relationship with.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (05:09)

Are there any moments when being Native or Indigenous made you feel marginalized from the greater Princeton community, and if so, could you describe this moment?

Ellis Hanby '27 (05:17)

There is one moment that always comes to mind where I felt slightly marginalized from the greater Princeton community. And that's because I mean, you know, I'm white passing because my dad's fully white. My mom is Native. So I was giving a tour. I'm an Orange Key guide and I was giving a tour and I always say at beginning, like, oh, I'm a member of Princeton Natives, et cetera. And I had this mom come up to me after the tour and was like, you said you're Native American? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, well, that's so funny. You don't look it. Can I rub off some of your skin so I can be Native too?

And it was just like a very odd moment because she was trying to make a joke about like college admissions and affirmative action, which I was like, well, I that doesn't even matter anymore, so. But that was a very interesting moment because I had never experienced anything like that at home based literally on my skin color because most people where I'm from are probably somehow Native or somehow something just because like, you know, Trail of Tears, like, you know, geographically. So that was a really interesting moment. And I think like since then I've kind of almost been like hesitant to talk about my identity or tell people I'm Native because it makes me feel like, like, you know, if I don't look exactly how they would expect me to, then I might not even say that I am. And then I find myself, if I do tell someone I'm Native and they give me that look of like, well, you don't look at it. say, well, you you should see my mom. Like she looks the part.

My dad's white, I'm like, why am I explaining this to you? But it's just interesting because I never really had that happen at home. So I think that was a big moment of me just being like, okay, even though ethnicity is not skin deep, I guess it can be for some people. And I just, hadn't experienced that before.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (06:51)

Do you feel like you have to do that often on this campus? Or like, is it this area or is it Princeton in particular?

Ellis Hanby '27 (08:43)

I don't know if it's Princeton in particular just because I haven't really lived anywhere else. So maybe it's just like Northeast and they're not used to as many Native Indigenous people. I don't really know. But I do find myself on campus like never really bringing up my ethnicity in general, but especially even when people talk about like, would you write your Common App essay on? Like mine was about my heritage. And so I don't really want to like bring that up because it's like then people ask like, you're Native or I don't know, it's just, and it's not like I'm embarrassed of it, it's just like exhausting to have to do the whole explanation and almost like prove my own identity and I'm like, do you want my, you want my like card? What do you, I don't know, it's very, it's almost like I find myself purposefully not talking about it because I don't wanna have to like prove myself, but it's not necessarily like, I don't even know if I have to hurt myself all the time. I just find that when I do bring it up, I now feel this pressure to.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (07:49)

Are there any moments that you felt a sense of community or connection because of your Native or Indigenous identity?

Ellis Hanby '27 (07:56)

Truly one of the biggest moments I felt like a Native and Indigenous connection identity was over that period where I was getting really close to my one friend on the cheer team when I realized I was like, wow, like this is a special thing that only like the two of us really in this microcosm understand. And so I think that that was one moment I felt embedded both in my identity and in my community. And then I have another friend who's also Choctaw.

And she, I was like, oh my gosh, Carolina, you also have to try out for the cheer team. And she tried it with me and it was just kind of like, I got to feel like I was forming my own community by, I knew of friends who were Indigenous and then got them to join because Carolina and I kind of became friends before we came to Princeton because we both realized we were in a lot of random Native high school group chats. We were like, hey, we're going to the same school, like we should be friends. And so I think that that's kind of one way is just like you know some people and so you like reach out to them. And then even like through the bicker process, one odd thing that was good that came out of that is like they have those like Natives at TI night. And so you just meet people who are Native that you didn't know because you'd never seen that person before. And so like that was also really nice is like you find these pockets of people who even if you only like get to talk to them for a hot second because it's bicker, you do feel like a sense of community with them. I don't know how necessarily lasting that is, but I would say like, it's there. You just have to search a little bit harder.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (09:14)

Is it Carolina Pardo?

Ellis Hanby '27 (09:16)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabby Chavarria ‘26 (09:17)

We actually interviewed her too.

Ellis Hanby ‘27 (09:18)

Okay, yes. I was like, I love her.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (09:20)

So we're gonna move on to identity. Has being at Princeton changed the way you perceive yourself as Native or Indigenous?

Ellis Hanby '27 (09:27)

I think that one way being at Princeton has kind of changed the way I perceive myself as Native is like truly that Orange Key interaction. I really hadn't thought too deeply about like what it means to look Native until I was basically told that I didn't look Native. And so, you know, technically that was circumstantial, but it happened at Princeton and I like found myself kind of thinking about it critically and being like, no, this isn't the first time this has happened here. Like even my roommates were like, really? But I didn't really think too much of it until I kind of put it back into perspective. Because yeah, I mean, at home, you know, within the borders of the Cherokee Nation and like on the reservation, people look just like me, but it's like, I think to a certain extent, people who are not Native have this idea of what Native and Indigenous people should look like and when it doesn't align with their stereotype, they just don't believe you, which is fine but ignorant. And so I think that was one thing that Princeton kind of perceived the way I view myself as Native is I'm having to constantly fight this thing in the back of my head that says I'm not Native because I don't look it, because there is no Native look. Colonization kind of killed that. So I think that that's one thing I'm having to…I just think about more often than I did before.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (10:40)

I think it's really great that like you're talking about this because this perspective I feel like is very under-discussed. Kind of like how we perceive Native identity like from an outside perspective versus your perspective so yeah I really think that your insights on this would be really great.

So the next section is about campus life. Do you believe that your Native or Indigenous identity and culture are represented at Princeton, and if so, in what ways?

Ellis Hanby '27 (11:05)

I do feel like the Native and Indigenous identities just as a whole are definitely represented at Princeton through Princeton Natives. I just think it is kind of small. So that's kind of like, you know, why I sometimes maybe feel like, slightly disconnected, which is probably also a fault of my own. But because it's so small, it's like usually we'll meet like once a month. And if that doesn't work with your schedule, you just don't see anybody. And so, you know, I think that that makes it hard, but I definitely do think that there is like a small and good group of students who are very passionate about Native and Indigenous life on campus. And I've had the opportunity to go a lot to a few of their events and they've been great. I just, I think it's, not too small, but just I think sometimes because of its size, it's hard to, you know, do things together, it's, it really, is there. You just have to like search for it and make an effort.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (11:53)

So we're going to move on to the extra questions. How did you feel when you got accepted into Princeton and how does this feeling compare to how you feel now?

Ellis Hanby '27 (12:01)

I remember the day I got into Princeton like no other. I mean, I feel like it was like peak of my life, best day ever. I was like hysterically sobbing, because I just, I didn't ever imagine a world in which I'd actually get in. So I was thrilled. My parents were, that was the first time I'd ever seen my dad cry. Like it was great. And I don't think I got off that high for a while. And then I came to Princeton and you know, I had freshman semester.

First of all was not the best, but now I feel like I just have like an appreciation for Princeton. I've made so many like great informative relationships here and just had like formative experiences here that could be attributed to college in general, but I personally would attribute it to Princeton. I think that it has a special place and feeling that other schools cannot replicate. But I think I definitely, I really love Princeton. There are moments that I don't love it just because it does feel too small sometimes. But it's more like an appreciation. I think before I actually came to campus, I was just like, there could be nothing bad about it. And now that bubble has definitely been burst, but I'm not like, oh my gosh, this is the worst place ever. I'm more just like, this is my home for now. Emphasis on the for now, though.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (13:11)

What was your experience getting involved with campus life at Princeton? What activities or student groups were you involved in on campus? And then what drew you to those groups for activities?

Ellis Hanby '27 (13:20)

So the very first campus activity that I got involved in was the cheer team. I tried out my senior spring. So I technically was on the team before I even got to campus, which was really nice to kind of at least know faces of some people. And so that was very fun. And I danced all throughout high school. I danced for like 15 years, I think competitively. And so I always knew I wanted to do something with dance, but I didn't know about the dance groups. So when we didn't have that like, pom, I was like, I guess I have to for the cheer team. And my mom also cheered in college, so she was like, you have to do it. So that was that. And then I got involved with Natives at Princeton pretty also quickly off the bat when I got to campus. And again, really like that community. Just like, we don't meet super frequently, so you know, sometimes you don't feel like you're super connected, but still really like that community. And then again, my freshman follow was just kind of struggling through Princeton and it's probably can be attributed to the fact that I was really only involved in cheer because that next semester I got involved with Orange Key which I love the tour guides and I got involved with the Nassau Literary Review because I'm an English major so I like to write and edit and all of those things. Figments Magazine and so I think I kind of stepped into a more, a few more community spaces.

And like my primary reasons for all of those is that I like to meet people that I know have similar interests as me that are not necessarily academic. So like I stayed away from those like, you know, Tigers in Finance or consulting clubs because I was like I don't want to feel like I'm doing school outside of school. So like that's why I really liked Orange Key. I also loved my tour guide when I toured so I was like can you imagine doing that for someone else? So I just that's why I wanted to do touring. And then the Nassau Literary Review and Figments Magazine even though that might seem like school-y. I love to write so it doesn't feel like it. So it's nice to hang out with people who also like to write all the time. And then last fall, I guess, I joined the University Press Club, which is just another writing club. So I guess I'm kind of like one track minded in all my clubs, but I really enjoy them all, so. I feel like all of my clubs are kind of just based around things that I like and making sure I talk to people outside of them because I'm not super extroverted, even though that might seem contradictory being a cheerleader and a tour guide. But I put myself in clubs that force me to be extroverted, so that I make friends, cause I feel like otherwise I would just hang out and read and write all day.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (15:34)

That's kind of real.

What are three words you would use to describe your Princeton experience?

Ellis Hanby '27 (15:40)

That is so hard. The first one that comes to mind is challenging just because it's been a lot more than I think I bargained for. The second I would say is formative because I've learned a lot of lessons. Those both sound negative though, I don't mean it.

And also just like, I don't know how to say it in the reverse, but like I feel grateful. Like it's like, this feels like a blessing. That's a good word, blessing. It feels like something that I didn't even realize I was stepping into, but it's like an experience like no other that I think will change my life in ways that really nothing else could have. So for that, I'm incredibly grateful.

Gabby Chavarria '26 (16:17)

And then our last question, what is your hope for future Native and Indigenous students on Princeton’s campus?

Ellis Hanby '27 (16:23)

My hope for future Native and Indigenous students on campus is to, first of all, just keep growing. I feel like I actually did a project on this in high school. It was kind of like my senior thesis in high school was Native presence in Ivy Leagues. And we obviously just don't have that big one. But Princeton is like one of the smallest Native and Indigenous presences on an Ivy League campus. So I just, I mean, obviously I know we don't have control over that, but the administration does. Like I would just love to continue to see that group expand because I feel like a lot of the issue with the lack of Native and Indigenous students on campus is because they don't realize it's a place where they could go. And so even if that means, you know, going to more Native and Indigenous areas, I don't think, I know that Princeton, like, they send admissions officers out. They never came to my town. So like, you know, I think that that would be one thing that I would love to see happen.

But then once they get to campus, just expanding that community in general. I would love if Natives at Princeton did more events because a lot of the time too it's like, you should go to this lecture. That's not necessarily a community building activity. It's a go together activity, which is also still fun and I do enjoy the lectures. But just building community outside again of academics or politics and all of those things that are really critical but can be even better when backed by a sense of community I think would be my biggest hope.